Date   

Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Jan Thielscher
 

Hello Aitken,

 

thank you for pointing this out. I can underline this experience as well.

My suspicion is, that project ownership and traditional corporate structures are root causes of this.

 

We try to organize projects from the beginning as corporate change projects. This does not make it easier to sell, but it sets the right expectations at sponsor level. When starting a project initiated in corporate legal, you may succeed in IT / Dev but might fail in corporate purchase or later in HR, when it comes to adjusting developer contracts concerning contributions…

 

Thus I would suggest to frame it from the beginning as a corporate change.

 

Best regards

Jan

 

Von: <main@...> im Auftrag von "Andrew Aitken via lists.openchainproject.org" <andrew.aitken=wipro.com@...>
Antworten an: "main@..." <main@...>
Datum: Donnerstag, 25. Februar 2021 um 15:36
An: "main@..." <main@...>
Betreff: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Shane, to your point, having been involved in building or advising on over 50+ governance programs, one area of weakness we consistently see is around supply chain management. Many organizations set up sophisticated processes, tooling and automation to manage code they build and deploy and only give a passing thought to code ingested or embedded and deployed in their products from 3rd parties.

 

 

Regards,

 

Andrew Aitken

Global Open Source Practice Leader

in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat

650-704-6321

1494361338303_PastedImage

 

 

 

 

Sensitivity: Internal & Restricted

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 2:07 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
.
 

Thanks Mary. An important point.

 

Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward. 

 

Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth.

 

The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation).

 

I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market.

 

We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value?

 

Regards

 

Shane 

 

On Feb 23, 2021, at 1:42, Mattran, Mary <mary.mattran@...> wrote:

To me, this is a strange answer.  My company is not OC compliant, but we certainly have been taking compliance seriously and have much in place to support that commitment in the form of compliance reviews.  So, we don't break the law.  OC Compliance is not a law.  It is a standard for having a robust compliance program.  If you already have ways of ensuring you are not violating licenses/law, the question is "what value does it have for me to go the extra mile to become OC compliant?"  An important question for companies to answer.  

My company supplies automotive subsystems to auto manufacturers.  The auto manufacturers are starting to ask about our plans to be OC compliant.  It is a business-to-business question, and easier for us to answer.  If I am a customer looking for COTS, I am likely not going to ask if the SW is OC Compliant, so it may have no business value to that vendor to take the extra steps to OC compliance.

'The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com'


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Andrew Aitken
 

Shane, to your point, having been involved in building or advising on over 50+ governance programs, one area of weakness we consistently see is around supply chain management. Many organizations set up sophisticated processes, tooling and automation to manage code they build and deploy and only give a passing thought to code ingested or embedded and deployed in their products from 3rd parties.

 

 

Regards,

 

Andrew Aitken

Global Open Source Practice Leader

in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat

650-704-6321

1494361338303_PastedImage

 

 

 

 

Sensitivity: Internal & Restricted

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 2:07 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
.
 

Thanks Mary. An important point.

 

Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward. 

 

Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth.

 

The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation).

 

I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market.

 

We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value?

 

Regards

 

Shane 

 

On Feb 23, 2021, at 1:42, Mattran, Mary <mary.mattran@...> wrote:

To me, this is a strange answer.  My company is not OC compliant, but we certainly have been taking compliance seriously and have much in place to support that commitment in the form of compliance reviews.  So, we don't break the law.  OC Compliance is not a law.  It is a standard for having a robust compliance program.  If you already have ways of ensuring you are not violating licenses/law, the question is "what value does it have for me to go the extra mile to become OC compliant?"  An important question for companies to answer.  

My company supplies automotive subsystems to auto manufacturers.  The auto manufacturers are starting to ask about our plans to be OC compliant.  It is a business-to-business question, and easier for us to answer.  If I am a customer looking for COTS, I am likely not going to ask if the SW is OC Compliant, so it may have no business value to that vendor to take the extra steps to OC compliance.

'The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com'


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Thanks Mary. An important point.

Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward. 

Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth.

The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation).

I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market.

We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value?

Regards

Shane 

On Feb 23, 2021, at 1:42, Mattran, Mary <mary.mattran@...> wrote:
To me, this is a strange answer.  My company is not OC compliant, but we certainly have been taking compliance seriously and have much in place to support that commitment in the form of compliance reviews.  So, we don't break the law.  OC Compliance is not a law.  It is a standard for having a robust compliance program.  If you already have ways of ensuring you are not violating licenses/law, the question is "what value does it have for me to go the extra mile to become OC compliant?"  An important question for companies to answer.  

My company supplies automotive subsystems to auto manufacturers.  The auto manufacturers are starting to ask about our plans to be OC compliant.  It is a business-to-business question, and easier for us to answer.  If I am a customer looking for COTS, I am likely not going to ask if the SW is OC Compliant, so it may have no business value to that vendor to take the extra steps to OC compliance.


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Thanks Mary. An important point.

Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward. 

Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth.

The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation).

I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market.

We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value?

Regards

Shane 

On Feb 23, 2021, at 1:42, Mattran, Mary <mary.mattran@...> wrote:
To me, this is a strange answer.  My company is not OC compliant, but we certainly have been taking compliance seriously and have much in place to support that commitment in the form of compliance reviews.  So, we don't break the law.  OC Compliance is not a law.  It is a standard for having a robust compliance program.  If you already have ways of ensuring you are not violating licenses/law, the question is "what value does it have for me to go the extra mile to become OC compliant?"  An important question for companies to answer.  

My company supplies automotive subsystems to auto manufacturers.  The auto manufacturers are starting to ask about our plans to be OC compliant.  It is a business-to-business question, and easier for us to answer.  If I am a customer looking for COTS, I am likely not going to ask if the SW is OC Compliant, so it may have no business value to that vendor to take the extra steps to OC compliance.


Re: The business of OpenChain certifications

Asai, Yoshinaho
 

Hi all,

I'm sorry for being late to join this topics. I'm Asai from TUEV SUED Japan in charge of Functional Safety and OSS certificate.
Because we are just started the job transfer process from former colleagues.
It may takes a couple of months to announce that we are ready now again.

From year of 2021 on we(TUEV SUED Japan, FS Team) will be responsible for the certificate acc. to ISO 5230 globally.
We have more than 20 years experiences for Functional Safety Business in any category.
So that we can adapt ISO 5203 without any difficulties because of our experience. Functional Safety Business includes lots of assessment
Like software development(V-V model so on), System management audit and analysis of software development process.

Once we are ready of course we will announce again officially. And also we are interesting to start working with clients who are interesting to have the 3rd party certificate in advance to other company. We can work together under reasonable conditions in that case.
As I said we already issued more than 500 certificates as professional way acc. to ISO policy as notified body and certification body. (We are accredited by Governmental organization(EU/Germany, Dakks/ZLS).)
We are confident to sale our mark as professional level in the global market for sure. The only thing I want to know is how much company are willing to have it. For us ISO 26262 certificate business were somehow no good results in automotive market. If OC certificate are well required in the market, of course we will do our best to show the certificate holder/comply with ISO 5230 as professional level in a single level judgement as certification body.

Best regards,

淺井 由尚 (Yoshinaho Asai)
Functional Safety Team, TUEV SUED Japan

-----Original Message-----
From: main@lists.openchainproject.org <main@lists.openchainproject.org> On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 5:06 PM
To: main@lists.openchainproject.org
Subject: Re: [openchain] The business of OpenChain certifications

"Attention! External Mail. Be careful with Links/Attachments!"

Hi Dirk

Self-certification is not an interim step. It is and always will be at the core of the project. In over five years in market it has proven to be an effective and efficient method of promoting better compliance. We have yet to have a reported case of misrepresentation in this space. Naturally, if such a case occurred in the future, we would address. We have several measures to do so, including but not limited to our trademarks.

Regarding TUV SÜD specifically, the certification business has moved to Japan. Asai San in that office is in charge, and I am happy to make an introduction as useful. The Japan and Korea offices are currently talking with clients.

More broadly, as Marcel pointed out, there are reputable certifiers and auditors in play. We expect to build and announce further relationships in this space throughout 2021. The key measure for effective engagement beyond their individual reputation is their participation in the OpenChain Partner Program. This ensures their application has been vetted by our governing board.

Even more broadly, with ISO 5230 gaining traction in procurement, we expect to see an uptick in both independent assessment (similar to ISO 26262, and already provided by law firms and services providers in our eco-system), alongside full third party certification by organizations like PwC and TUV SÜD.

Regards

Shane

On Feb 21, 2021, at 19:51, Dirk Riehle <dirk@riehle.org> wrote:

Hi all,

I assume that the short-term business value of having an OpenChain certification (as a company) is that you can promise your customers lower open source compliance costs. Longer-term I assume the OpenChain (or a comparable one) certification to be a must-have.

Which begs the question where we are on the business of certifications in general. I assume that the self-certification was only an intermediate step and that there should be full blown certifications like the one by TUEV Sued.

https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
openchainproject.org%2Fresources%2Fcase-study-3rd-party-cert&amp;data=
04%7C01%7CYoshinaho.Asai%40tuvsud.com%7Ca13b275a43cc42dc84d008d8d708a7
50%7Ca110956708154e1f88afe23555482aaa%7C0%7C0%7C637495779460465458%7CU
nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=UhEjcyFsX3GSZ%2FKEPDjxivEqgczvLvd79
HUfJrzaYJQ%3D&amp;reserved=0

When I last looked into how certifications work (ten years ago), there had to be three separate entities to turn this into a viable business:

1. Curriculum designers (those who determine the content) 2. Trainers
/ consultants who get customers in shape 3. The certification agency
and its mark (e.g. TUEV or UL or ...)

I believe this working group is 1. for any OpenChain derived certification marks. Trainers / consultants 2. are plenty, including yours truly.

The missing part seem to be the certification agencies (and their assessors). The people who drove forward the TUEV certification mark have left; not sure much is going on there. Any other agencies?

I'd be curious how the certification agencies establish believable marks. I assume that there will never by a generic (LF) OpenChain certification mark, only TUEV or UL marks. For this, the certification agencies need to set up their assessment program.

I can't find it, but I thought there was an ISO standard on how to set-up certification agencies (i.e. how to get certified as an agency that can issue high-quality marks). Does this apply or can anyone (Joe's Waffle House) create a mark as long as they have the marketing dollars to make customers believe the mark means something?

Cheers, Dirk

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C0%7C637495779460475451%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
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https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdirk
riehle.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7CYoshinaho.Asai%40tuvsud.com%7Ca13b275
a43cc42dc84d008d8d708a750%7Ca110956708154e1f88afe23555482aaa%7C0%7C0%7
C637495779460475451%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=fNmifCpSmLbG
dIDeoEQBwBYyXI3rtQMANTOxPQS4IgU%3D&amp;reserved=0 - Twitter:
@dirkriehle Ph (DE): +49-157-8153-4150 - Ph (US): +1-650-450-8550






Re: OpenChain Online Training Course - We are getting close

Balakrishna Mukundraj
 

Hello Team,

We now have all the 8 OSS basics and compliance related topics from OpenChain reference curriculum.

Also, we have only copy pasted the slides content on to word document directly without any modifications. But some of the slides (Not all) have some good elaborate explanations in the slide notes sections, which are yet to be incorporated on into the document.

Please do check and let us know or make changes on your own (with track changes), where we can add or replace the slide content with their explanations from slide notes.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

Mukundaraj Balakrishna

Information co-ordination (RBEI/ECA5)
Robert Bosch GmbH | Postfach 10 60 50 | 70049 Stuttgart | GERMANY | www.bosch.com
Tel. +91 80 6657-5938 | Mobile +91-96207-91838 | Fax +91 80 6617-0711 | Balakrishna.Mukundraj@in.bosch.com

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Dr. Stefan Hartung, Dr. Markus Heyn, Harald Kröger, Rolf Najork, Uwe Raschke

-----Original Message-----
From: main@lists.openchainproject.org <main@lists.openchainproject.org> On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 6:52 PM
To: OpenChain Education <education@lists.openchainproject.org>; OpenChain Main <main@lists.openchainproject.org>
Subject: [openchain] OpenChain Online Training Course - We are getting close

Hey everyone! We have some great comments and suggestions for the first half of our course. Can you take a moment to run your eyes over what we have? The next step will be resolving comments and handing over to LF Training.
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/ap/w-59584e83/?url=https%3A%2F%2F1drv.ms%2Fw%2Fs!AsXJVqby5kpnkRE0rsGzo5lduvaq%3Fe%3DAYuskf&amp;data=04%7C01%7Cbalakrishna.mukundraj%40in.bosch.com%7Ce8a3cdec52a74aa7b8a908d8d734e485%7C0ae51e1907c84e4bbb6d648ee58410f4%7C0%7C0%7C637495969456901189%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=0evQq6%2Blj9Yo4knTbi8JvOlOaQO5laZ807ZxCzeOz0Q%3D&amp;reserved=0

NOTE ON EDITING THIS DOCUMENT
This document is collecting the text from the OpenChain Curriculum Slides (it has chapters 1~4 already) and we are adding comments and ideas to refine the text.
When we are happy with this material, we will hand it to LF Training, and they will produce a free edX course for us.
Balakrishna is currently working adding chapters 5~8 for our review. Meanwhile, please look at the existing text and comments, and see if you can lend a hand!


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Jan Thielscher
 

Hi Robert,

I followed the conversation and can confirm that the question of certification in the sense of „certify that I am compliant“ vs. „I verified that we do the right things to comply“ is a hard one. Most likely the existence of the standard will justify the certification over time. Why do I believe this?

Given you are about to make a multi-million, several years supplier deal within the automative industry but the requirement is to be ISO 5230 compliant. If  your org isn’t ready at the time of tender, probably you will not make it to the bid. What’s the opportunity costs for that? Well, probably the discounted ebit of the project? enough for a certification?

I do not know what the ticket sizes for your company are, but I would suggest to think in that direction to make a first step. There is one thing for sure: The demand for this sort of certification will grow because it exists. It will bring the buyer in a better position than if he does not request it while in the same time the costs are on the sellers side. Thus a buyer not requesting it, does a bad job. 

Back to your question: Depending on your ticket size the answer might be a multi step approach. As Mary said: a single use case / request will most likely not make a business case. But preparing the organisation based on what you already have will reduce the efforts and time required to achieve the cert, whenever required. So even smaller tickets allow a justification. The path to describe it will be specific to your company.

Following the above logic the decision will anyhow evolve from a „whether“ to  a „when" …   

Mit freundlichem Gruß / kind regards
Jan Thielscher
 
T: +49 69 153 22 77 55
F: +49 69 153 22 77 51
 
EACG GmbH
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Am 22.02.2021 um 19:14 schrieb Robert via lists.openchainproject.org <Rob_marion=protonmail.com@...>:

Thank you to Shane and everyone who took the time to respond to my question.
I would like to clear one thing up. When I asked to justify compliance with the ISO standard from a business perspective, I did not mean to imply that my organization does not comply with open source licensing issues or that we do not have an internal program for making sure we are in compliance. We certainly do. Also, I believe everyone on this mailing list is, in some way, involved in Open Source compliance so I think we are mostly on the same page as to the need for compliance from a legal and ethical perspective.

From a business perspective, however, if I want to show data (and some data has been quoted in the replies to my original question -- thanks). Showing data in any compliance related effort is challenging. Furthermore, the amount of effort it takes to produce the data may exceed the amount of effort to simply implement ISO compliance. I smell a research paper.





Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Robert
 

Thank you to Shane and everyone who took the time to respond to my question.
I would like to clear one thing up. When I asked to justify compliance with the ISO standard from a business perspective, I did not mean to imply that my organization does not comply with open source licensing issues or that we do not have an internal program for making sure we are in compliance. We certainly do. Also, I believe everyone on this mailing list is, in some way, involved in Open Source compliance so I think we are mostly on the same page as to the need for compliance from a legal and ethical perspective.

From a business perspective, however, if I want to show data (and some data has been quoted in the replies to my original question -- thanks). Showing data in any compliance related effort is challenging. Furthermore, the amount of effort it takes to produce the data may exceed the amount of effort to simply implement ISO compliance. I smell a research paper.




Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Mattran, Mary
 

To me, this is a strange answer.  My company is not OC compliant, but we certainly have been taking compliance seriously and have much in place to support that commitment in the form of compliance reviews.  So, we don't break the law.  OC Compliance is not a law.  It is a standard for having a robust compliance program.  If you already have ways of ensuring you are not violating licenses/law, the question is "what value does it have for me to go the extra mile to become OC compliant?"  An important question for companies to answer.  

My company supplies automotive subsystems to auto manufacturers.  The auto manufacturers are starting to ask about our plans to be OC compliant.  It is a business-to-business question, and easier for us to answer.  If I am a customer looking for COTS, I am likely not going to ask if the SW is OC Compliant, so it may have no business value to that vendor to take the extra steps to OC compliance.


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Nicole Pappler
 

Hey hey!

I've been following this discussion now for a while and I'd like to add my 50 cents to it.

As I understood it is currently hard for some to get a grip on the business value of an OpenChain certification, or even the value of an OpenChain compliant program?

I think Oliver's initial question states it quite cleary: "What is the business justification not to breaking the law?" I'd like to add, what is the business value to be sure that you don't violate legal rules by accident? If you violate the license obligations of the components you use in your product, regardless if you did it on purpose or because of your ingorance of the obligations, you simply have no legal right to sell your product anymore - as you never had the right to do so anyway. This means all your invest to develop your product, all production costs you had for manufacturing, shipping etc - you could have burnt that money, you are definitly not getting any revenue out of your product anymore. You might even have cost for the legal procedings and charges, compensation payments to the rights holders, maybe even costs for the disposal of your now useless product. Maybe even damage compensation for your customers, as they also cannot use your product anymore in their products. As Oliver already stated that the value for sure is "less damages, settlements and lawsuits => cost reduction.".

And thinking of the OpenChain compliant program as a risk management measure clearly shows that this risk must be managed in your complete supply chain. And will lead to the question how to prove to your business partners that you are compliant - and likewise how to ask for compliance evidence. So there you have the value of certifications - it is a standardized evidence that you are compliant.

So there is a clear value in certifications. Which of the three certification models offered by OpenChain is the most valueable for your business case is up to you. Usually that is a matter of trust - if you know your partners quite well you will be ok with self certification. It becomes more complicated if you want to demonstrate your compliance to a bigger audience, be it in concrete sales discussions or to position your product or services on the market. As already stated by Dirk, this could help a positioning as a premium provider on the market. And there might come the day, that compliance to OpenChain will be a fixed staple in every RFQ, like A-SPICE is now in certain markets.

Anyway: @Dirk Riehle: regading "The missing part seem to be the certification agencies (and their assessors). The people who drove forward the TUEV certification mark have left; not sure much is going on there. Any other agencies?" - Yes, we have left, but we have now established a cooperation with our ex-colleagues at TÜV SÜD to support them to continue with the OpenChain 3rd party certification - so if anybody is interessted in getting a TÜV mark on their compliance activities, please feel free to contact me, I'm still the main driver of their 3rd party certification. And regarding your question of an ISO standard how to set up certification agencies - it's the ISO/IEC 17065:2012. That's the one you can go for e.g. by asking the Dakks for accreditation. Additionally to this accreditation the value of the certificate you issue as a certification body will still only be as valuable as the level of trust the market has in your certification brand.

The question that's coming into my mind now is: How can we establish trust in the assessment and certication programs? How can we ensure the quality of Independent Compliance Assessment and OpenChain 3rd party certifications? The certification based on the standard can be done by everybody, but does anybody see a value in having something like an "OpenChain project accredited Assessment Partner"? Or a training and personal certification program for OpenChain assessors, similar to what's there for A-SPICE?

Maybe it's worth to discuss this all in one of our regular calls?

BR,

Nicole

Am 22.02.21 um 09:38 schrieb Shane Coughlan:

All, fantastic discussion thus far. I am jumping in at Trent’s email because it touches on a strategic development and - indeed - target for the project.

Today open source exists both inside the practice of SAM but somewhat dislocated from the discussion. Open source is sometimes perceived as different from “normal” software, and therefore potentially possessing some risk that stands apart. This potential perception, naturally, runs against the streams of the industry itself, whereby open source is embedded into the fabric of all software deployment today.

The fate of open source is rightfully in SAM, and ISO 5230 is a significant step towards this clear normalization of open source compliance in this manner. Adjacent to this we see other initiatives, most notably SPDX - provisionally due as an ISO standard around June - and advanced discussions with automation vendors and open source tooling projects regarding transparent interoperability.

The OpenChain Project has no specific insight into any business plan or decision by any company (naturally), we do have insight into the trends unfolding. The quip that ISO 5230 can replace 12 pages of bespoke contract language (and work better) is growing closer to a crescendo. The standard is also being applied in production to assist security, export control and M&A. The uptick of enquiries from suppliers thinking about sales optics is noticeable since graduating from ISO.

My baseline prediction is the ISO 5230 will enter a substantial number of purchasing negotiations this year, with the majority probably offering a preferred status, and a minority leaning towards a required status. These metrics will adjust with bias towards requirements in 2022.

Meanwhile, the project will collaborate with experts in the SAM space, both user companies and vendors, to place ISO 5230 in a clear context with all the other standards companies use for effectiveness, from ISO 9001 through to ISO 26262. We will seek to become as boring as possible as quickly as possible, a reflection of ensuring OpenChain is the solution adopted with as little disturbance but as much benefit as possible.

Regards

Shane 

On Feb 21, 2021, at 23:18, Trent Allgood <trentallgood@...> wrote:


I agree with the previous statements as well. In addition, it might be hard to find current statements on Open Chain itself due to its relative infancy, especially as an ISO PAS, but Gartner has said a lot over the years about the business value of proper IT Asset Management (ITAM) & Software Asset Management (SAM) governance. ITAM includes SAM which itself includes Software License Management & Compliance which itself includes Open Source License Management & Compliance. One of the most common statistics used from Gartner (paraphrased) is: 'companies with mature Software Asset Management practices can recognize 30% cost savings the first year and 5% cost savings in each of the subsequent 5 years' (See G00214140 for the exact language). Gartner has also made several statements on the trend of IT Security concerns being the main driver for adopting proper SAM governance programs. An organization can't manage and mitigate what it is not aware of (e.g. the Equifax breach; the congressional report directly blames the lack of knowledge of what Software was running in the environment). This is commonly referred to as 'shadow IT' and Gartner states that it expects a third of future cyber security breaches to be facilitated by unmanaged shadow IT ('Gartner Predictions for IT Infrastructure and Operations 2016'). So depending on if your organization's scope is more broad than Open Source License Compliance, you may find additional compelling reasons and statistics. Keep in mind, there is also a family of ISO Standards for IT Asset Management: ISO/IEC 19770-1:2017.

Kind regards,

Trent Allgood
ISO/IEC JTC1 SC7/WG21, Secretary
Anglepoint, Director, ITAM

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 9:44 PM Prasad Iyer via lists.openchainproject.org <prasadiy=cisco.com@...> wrote:

This is an interesting question and really valid points from Oliver. In any major organization like ours, it is common for the portfolio governance Team to get the relevant justifications on the business(financial) value before they make a call to invest on any major initiative/projects. When it comes to Compliance related initiatives, it is really difficult to quantify in actual dollars the business value-add.

 

Here are some thoughts that I would like to share  on this -- Apart from the legal obligation, Compliance can be considered more as an insurance policy for the larger organization that offers protection from any potential license violation related liabilities/law suits and leakage of IPs in the future. In addition to this, having a robust compliance process is fundamental to generating and maintaining the most accurate Bill Of Materials (BOMs) for a given Product that may improve corresponding organization’s Supply chain forecasting accuracy. A stable and well managed Compliance program helps major organizations to ensure not to miss or over pay on their royalty payment obligations which at times can lead to major financial losses or litigations. So just to summarize, one may not be able to tag a given dollar amount as the Business value-add for having a dynamic and effective compliance program  since it may not be realized accurately in a short term. However, Organization’s overall Productivity and improved forecasting accuracy are the most certain business values one may realize due to Compliance in addition to legal and liability protection that can’t be quantified and may vary from case to case as appropriate.

 

Cheers,

 

<image001.jpg>

Prasad Iyer

Director, Engineering - Product Operations

 

Email : prasadiy@...

Phone: +1 (408) 315-5101

<image002.png>

 

 

 

 

From: <main@...> on behalf of Oliver Fendt <oliver.fendt@...>
Reply-To: "main@..." <main@...>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 8:52 AM
To: "main@..." <main@...>
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Hi Robert,

 

This is a kind of strange question – it sounds to me like – What is the business justification not to breaking the law?

Would this organization do business with organizations which do not care about law? Or put it the other way – Are they a serious business partner, with such kind of attitude?

But coming back to your question, I am not aware about studies in this regard, I think it is to early for existing studies, it is an ISO standard since 2 months now.

OpenChain conformance is not only about OSS compliance it is about license compliance in general.

So the business justification is less damages, settlements and lawsuits => cost reduction. The copyright act defines strong measures against entities, which are not in compliance with law at least in Germany ( https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_urhg.html#p0561 – this has to be taken seriously, think about the consequences in such a case

I am sure that we will see more and more companies requiring OpenChain conformance in their supplier conditions. Especially those companies, which integrate supplier goods in their own offerings will require OpenChain conformance. It might be that the public sector will also require it.

The business justification is that this organization will be able to do business with companies that will require OpenChain conformance.

 

Ciao

Oliver

 

 

 

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Robert via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Samstag, 20. Februar 2021 03:09
To: main@...
Subject: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Recently, I was asked whether I could supply a business justification for OpenChain certification. "Business justification," in this case, means will it have any effect on sales. Is there a dollar amount that can be attached to compliance? Have we lost or gained a sale by compliance/certification? Personally, I do not know. Has there been a study that demonstrates tangible business value? Does anyone have experience with a sale that depended on having OpenChain compliance? Or a well-defined Open Source program?

 

 

 


OpenChain Global Work Teams - Fourth Monday Call - Mon, 2021-02-22 7:00am-8:00am, Please RSVP #cal-reminder

main@lists.openchainproject.org Calendar <main@...>
 

Reminder: OpenChain Global Work Teams - Fourth Monday Call

When: Monday, 22 February 2021, 7:00am to 8:00am, (GMT-08:00) America/Los Angeles

Where:Zoom - https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9990120120?pwd=NzVCaFE2L1RRRFZaSkk0dm8xdlplUT09

An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP

Organizer: Shane Coughlan scoughlan@...

Description:

Join Zoom Meeting ( https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9990120120?pwd=NzVCaFE2L1RRRFZaSkk0dm8xdlplUT09 )
Meeting ID: 999 012 0120
Password: 123456


Our regular bi-weekly global work team call happens in one hour

 

On the talk today we will be covering a lot

1) OpenChain online training status

2) New onboarding slides

3) Updated overview slides

I would also like to talk about an optional security extension to ISO 5230 (a guide document rather than a specification).

Looking forward to seeing you there.

Shane

Shane Coughlan
OpenChain General Manager
+818040358083
Book a meeting:
https://meetings.hubspot.com/scoughlan


OpenChain Online Training Course - We are getting close

 

Hey everyone! We have some great comments and suggestions for the first half of our course. Can you take a moment to run your eyes over what we have? The next step will be resolving comments and handing over to LF Training.
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AsXJVqby5kpnkRE0rsGzo5lduvaq?e=AYuskf

NOTE ON EDITING THIS DOCUMENT
This document is collecting the text from the OpenChain Curriculum Slides (it has chapters 1~4 already) and we are adding comments and ideas to refine the text.
When we are happy with this material, we will hand it to LF Training, and they will produce a free edX course for us.
Balakrishna is currently working adding chapters 5~8 for our review. Meanwhile, please look at the existing text and comments, and see if you can lend a hand!


Re: Latest OpenChain Newsletter now available

 

Thank you Jenni! Already great to consolidate our news!

Shane Coughlan
OpenChain General Manager
+818040358083
Book a meeting:
https://meetings.hubspot.com/scoughlan

On Feb 20, 2021, at 1:37, Jennifer McGinnis <jmcginnis@...> wrote:


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

All, fantastic discussion thus far. I am jumping in at Trent’s email because it touches on a strategic development and - indeed - target for the project.

Today open source exists both inside the practice of SAM but somewhat dislocated from the discussion. Open source is sometimes perceived as different from “normal” software, and therefore potentially possessing some risk that stands apart. This potential perception, naturally, runs against the streams of the industry itself, whereby open source is embedded into the fabric of all software deployment today.

The fate of open source is rightfully in SAM, and ISO 5230 is a significant step towards this clear normalization of open source compliance in this manner. Adjacent to this we see other initiatives, most notably SPDX - provisionally due as an ISO standard around June - and advanced discussions with automation vendors and open source tooling projects regarding transparent interoperability.

The OpenChain Project has no specific insight into any business plan or decision by any company (naturally), we do have insight into the trends unfolding. The quip that ISO 5230 can replace 12 pages of bespoke contract language (and work better) is growing closer to a crescendo. The standard is also being applied in production to assist security, export control and M&A. The uptick of enquiries from suppliers thinking about sales optics is noticeable since graduating from ISO.

My baseline prediction is the ISO 5230 will enter a substantial number of purchasing negotiations this year, with the majority probably offering a preferred status, and a minority leaning towards a required status. These metrics will adjust with bias towards requirements in 2022.

Meanwhile, the project will collaborate with experts in the SAM space, both user companies and vendors, to place ISO 5230 in a clear context with all the other standards companies use for effectiveness, from ISO 9001 through to ISO 26262. We will seek to become as boring as possible as quickly as possible, a reflection of ensuring OpenChain is the solution adopted with as little disturbance but as much benefit as possible.

Regards

Shane 

On Feb 21, 2021, at 23:18, Trent Allgood <trentallgood@...> wrote:


I agree with the previous statements as well. In addition, it might be hard to find current statements on Open Chain itself due to its relative infancy, especially as an ISO PAS, but Gartner has said a lot over the years about the business value of proper IT Asset Management (ITAM) & Software Asset Management (SAM) governance. ITAM includes SAM which itself includes Software License Management & Compliance which itself includes Open Source License Management & Compliance. One of the most common statistics used from Gartner (paraphrased) is: 'companies with mature Software Asset Management practices can recognize 30% cost savings the first year and 5% cost savings in each of the subsequent 5 years' (See G00214140 for the exact language). Gartner has also made several statements on the trend of IT Security concerns being the main driver for adopting proper SAM governance programs. An organization can't manage and mitigate what it is not aware of (e.g. the Equifax breach; the congressional report directly blames the lack of knowledge of what Software was running in the environment). This is commonly referred to as 'shadow IT' and Gartner states that it expects a third of future cyber security breaches to be facilitated by unmanaged shadow IT ('Gartner Predictions for IT Infrastructure and Operations 2016'). So depending on if your organization's scope is more broad than Open Source License Compliance, you may find additional compelling reasons and statistics. Keep in mind, there is also a family of ISO Standards for IT Asset Management: ISO/IEC 19770-1:2017.

Kind regards,

Trent Allgood
ISO/IEC JTC1 SC7/WG21, Secretary
Anglepoint, Director, ITAM

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 9:44 PM Prasad Iyer via lists.openchainproject.org <prasadiy=cisco.com@...> wrote:

This is an interesting question and really valid points from Oliver. In any major organization like ours, it is common for the portfolio governance Team to get the relevant justifications on the business(financial) value before they make a call to invest on any major initiative/projects. When it comes to Compliance related initiatives, it is really difficult to quantify in actual dollars the business value-add.

 

Here are some thoughts that I would like to share  on this -- Apart from the legal obligation, Compliance can be considered more as an insurance policy for the larger organization that offers protection from any potential license violation related liabilities/law suits and leakage of IPs in the future. In addition to this, having a robust compliance process is fundamental to generating and maintaining the most accurate Bill Of Materials (BOMs) for a given Product that may improve corresponding organization’s Supply chain forecasting accuracy. A stable and well managed Compliance program helps major organizations to ensure not to miss or over pay on their royalty payment obligations which at times can lead to major financial losses or litigations. So just to summarize, one may not be able to tag a given dollar amount as the Business value-add for having a dynamic and effective compliance program  since it may not be realized accurately in a short term. However, Organization’s overall Productivity and improved forecasting accuracy are the most certain business values one may realize due to Compliance in addition to legal and liability protection that can’t be quantified and may vary from case to case as appropriate.

 

Cheers,

 

<image001.jpg>

Prasad Iyer

Director, Engineering - Product Operations

 

Email : prasadiy@...

Phone: +1 (408) 315-5101

<image002.png>

 

 

 

 

From: <main@...> on behalf of Oliver Fendt <oliver.fendt@...>
Reply-To: "main@..." <main@...>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 8:52 AM
To: "main@..." <main@...>
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Hi Robert,

 

This is a kind of strange question – it sounds to me like – What is the business justification not to breaking the law?

Would this organization do business with organizations which do not care about law? Or put it the other way – Are they a serious business partner, with such kind of attitude?

But coming back to your question, I am not aware about studies in this regard, I think it is to early for existing studies, it is an ISO standard since 2 months now.

OpenChain conformance is not only about OSS compliance it is about license compliance in general.

So the business justification is less damages, settlements and lawsuits => cost reduction. The copyright act defines strong measures against entities, which are not in compliance with law at least in Germany ( https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_urhg.html#p0561 – this has to be taken seriously, think about the consequences in such a case

I am sure that we will see more and more companies requiring OpenChain conformance in their supplier conditions. Especially those companies, which integrate supplier goods in their own offerings will require OpenChain conformance. It might be that the public sector will also require it.

The business justification is that this organization will be able to do business with companies that will require OpenChain conformance.

 

Ciao

Oliver

 

 

 

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Robert via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Samstag, 20. Februar 2021 03:09
To: main@...
Subject: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Recently, I was asked whether I could supply a business justification for OpenChain certification. "Business justification," in this case, means will it have any effect on sales. Is there a dollar amount that can be attached to compliance? Have we lost or gained a sale by compliance/certification? Personally, I do not know. Has there been a study that demonstrates tangible business value? Does anyone have experience with a sale that depended on having OpenChain compliance? Or a well-defined Open Source program?

 

 

 


Re: The business of OpenChain certifications

 

Hi Dirk

Self-certification is not an interim step. It is and always will be at the core of the project. In over five years in market it has proven to be an effective and efficient method of promoting better compliance. We have yet to have a reported case of misrepresentation in this space. Naturally, if such a case occurred in the future, we would address. We have several measures to do so, including but not limited to our trademarks.

Regarding TUV SÜD specifically, the certification business has moved to Japan. Asai San in that office is in charge, and I am happy to make an introduction as useful. The Japan and Korea offices are currently talking with clients.

More broadly, as Marcel pointed out, there are reputable certifiers and auditors in play. We expect to build and announce further relationships in this space throughout 2021. The key measure for effective engagement beyond their individual reputation is their participation in the OpenChain Partner Program. This ensures their application has been vetted by our governing board.

Even more broadly, with ISO 5230 gaining traction in procurement, we expect to see an uptick in both independent assessment (similar to ISO 26262, and already provided by law firms and services providers in our eco-system), alongside full third party certification by organizations like PwC and TUV SÜD.

Regards

Shane

On Feb 21, 2021, at 19:51, Dirk Riehle <dirk@riehle.org> wrote:

Hi all,

I assume that the short-term business value of having an OpenChain certification (as a company) is that you can promise your customers lower open source compliance costs. Longer-term I assume the OpenChain (or a comparable one) certification to be a must-have.

Which begs the question where we are on the business of certifications in general. I assume that the self-certification was only an intermediate step and that there should be full blown certifications like the one by TUEV Sued.

https://www.openchainproject.org/resources/case-study-3rd-party-cert

When I last looked into how certifications work (ten years ago), there had to be three separate entities to turn this into a viable business:

1. Curriculum designers (those who determine the content)
2. Trainers / consultants who get customers in shape
3. The certification agency and its mark (e.g. TUEV or UL or ...)

I believe this working group is 1. for any OpenChain derived certification marks. Trainers / consultants 2. are plenty, including yours truly.

The missing part seem to be the certification agencies (and their assessors). The people who drove forward the TUEV certification mark have left; not sure much is going on there. Any other agencies?

I'd be curious how the certification agencies establish believable marks. I assume that there will never by a generic (LF) OpenChain certification mark, only TUEV or UL marks. For this, the certification agencies need to set up their assessment program.

I can't find it, but I thought there was an ISO standard on how to set-up certification agencies (i.e. how to get certified as an agency that can issue high-quality marks). Does this apply or can anyone (Joe's Waffle House) create a mark as long as they have the marketing dollars to make customers believe the mark means something?

Cheers, Dirk

--
Confused about open source?
Get clarity through https://bayave.com/training
--
Website: https://dirkriehle.com - Twitter: @dirkriehle
Ph (DE): +49-157-8153-4150 - Ph (US): +1-650-450-8550






Re: The business of OpenChain certifications

 

All prospective certifiers are recommended to become official OpenChain Partners. It is a simple, clear way to delineate quality.

On Feb 21, 2021, at 19:54, Dirk Riehle <dirk@riehle.org> wrote:


I can't find it, but I thought there was an ISO standard on how to set-up certification agencies (i.e. how to get certified as an agency that can issue high-quality marks). Does this apply or can anyone (Joe's Waffle House) create a mark as long as they have the marketing dollars to make customers believe the mark means something?
PS: The answer is yes, as all the bogus Scrum certifications show (the word certification or certification mark is not protected AFAIK).

What I meant is: Does this working group want to let it come to that?

Cheers, Dirk


--
Confused about open source?
Get clarity through https://bayave.com/training
--
Website: https://dirkriehle.com - Twitter: @dirkriehle
Ph (DE): +49-157-8153-4150 - Ph (US): +1-650-450-8550






Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

BIJU
 

Dear All,

I wrote for Open Source For you Magazine February Edition covering the risk and legal action across and the cost of non compliance. The Article Titled " check before you ship Software" attempts to capture broadly the various non compliance risks.

Warm Regards

Biju K Nair



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On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 10:50 PM Andrew Aitken via lists.openchainproject.org <andrew.aitken=wipro.com@...> wrote:

A couple of things to keep in mind, OpenChain is an element of a compliance program which is in turn an element of an open source governance program and the business justification for Openchain can be tied to the larger goals for compliance and governance which will vary by industry. If you embed lots of open source in products you sell, then you are very concerned about license compliance and IP leakage, if you’re in a highly regulated environment like financial services you’re more concerned about regulatory compliance, cybersecurity risks and operational overhead maintenance, what I refer to as open source component lifecycle management. When Openchain conformance is a part of those larger efforts it is much easier to justify.

 

 

Regards,

 

Andrew Aitken

Global Open Source Practice Leader

in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat

650-704-6321

1494361338303_PastedImage

 

 

 

 

Sensitivity: Internal & Restricted

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Trent Allgood via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2021 7:18 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
.
 

I agree with the previous statements as well. In addition, it might be hard to find current statements on Open Chain itself due to its relative infancy, especially as an ISO PAS, but Gartner has said a lot over the years about the business value of proper IT Asset Management (ITAM) & Software Asset Management (SAM) governance. ITAM includes SAM which itself includes Software License Management & Compliance which itself includes Open Source License Management & Compliance. One of the most common statistics used from Gartner (paraphrased) is: 'companies with mature Software Asset Management practices can recognize 30% cost savings the first year and 5% cost savings in each of the subsequent 5 years' (See G00214140 for the exact language). Gartner has also made several statements on the trend of IT Security concerns being the main driver for adopting proper SAM governance programs. An organization can't manage and mitigate what it is not aware of (e.g. the Equifax breach; the congressional report directly blames the lack of knowledge of what Software was running in the environment). This is commonly referred to as 'shadow IT' and Gartner states that it expects a third of future cyber security breaches to be facilitated by unmanaged shadow IT ('Gartner Predictions for IT Infrastructure and Operations 2016'). So depending on if your organization's scope is more broad than Open Source License Compliance, you may find additional compelling reasons and statistics. Keep in mind, there is also a family of ISO Standards for IT Asset Management: ISO/IEC 19770-1:2017.

 

Kind regards,

 

Trent Allgood

ISO/IEC JTC1 SC7/WG21, Secretary

Anglepoint, Director, ITAM

 

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 9:44 PM Prasad Iyer via lists.openchainproject.org <prasadiy=cisco.com@...> wrote:

This is an interesting question and really valid points from Oliver. In any major organization like ours, it is common for the portfolio governance Team to get the relevant justifications on the business(financial) value before they make a call to invest on any major initiative/projects. When it comes to Compliance related initiatives, it is really difficult to quantify in actual dollars the business value-add.

 

Here are some thoughts that I would like to share  on this -- Apart from the legal obligation, Compliance can be considered more as an insurance policy for the larger organization that offers protection from any potential license violation related liabilities/law suits and leakage of IPs in the future. In addition to this, having a robust compliance process is fundamental to generating and maintaining the most accurate Bill Of Materials (BOMs) for a given Product that may improve corresponding organization’s Supply chain forecasting accuracy. A stable and well managed Compliance program helps major organizations to ensure not to miss or over pay on their royalty payment obligations which at times can lead to major financial losses or litigations. So just to summarize, one may not be able to tag a given dollar amount as the Business value-add for having a dynamic and effective compliance program  since it may not be realized accurately in a short term. However, Organization’s overall Productivity and improved forecasting accuracy are the most certain business values one may realize due to Compliance in addition to legal and liability protection that can’t be quantified and may vary from case to case as appropriate.

 

Cheers,

 

signature_126515226

Prasad Iyer

Director, Engineering - Product Operations

 

Email : prasadiy@...

Phone: +1 (408) 315-5101

DNS

 

 

 

 

From: <main@...> on behalf of Oliver Fendt <oliver.fendt@...>
Reply-To: "main@..." <main@...>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 8:52 AM
To: "main@..." <main@...>
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Hi Robert,

 

This is a kind of strange question – it sounds to me like – What is the business justification not to breaking the law?

Would this organization do business with organizations which do not care about law? Or put it the other way – Are they a serious business partner, with such kind of attitude?

But coming back to your question, I am not aware about studies in this regard, I think it is to early for existing studies, it is an ISO standard since 2 months now.

OpenChain conformance is not only about OSS compliance it is about license compliance in general.

So the business justification is less damages, settlements and lawsuits => cost reduction. The copyright act defines strong measures against entities, which are not in compliance with law at least in Germany ( https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_urhg.html#p0561 – this has to be taken seriously, think about the consequences in such a case

I am sure that we will see more and more companies requiring OpenChain conformance in their supplier conditions. Especially those companies, which integrate supplier goods in their own offerings will require OpenChain conformance. It might be that the public sector will also require it.

The business justification is that this organization will be able to do business with companies that will require OpenChain conformance.

 

Ciao

Oliver

 

 

 

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Robert via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Samstag, 20. Februar 2021 03:09
To: main@...
Subject: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Recently, I was asked whether I could supply a business justification for OpenChain certification. "Business justification," in this case, means will it have any effect on sales. Is there a dollar amount that can be attached to compliance? Have we lost or gained a sale by compliance/certification? Personally, I do not know. Has there been a study that demonstrates tangible business value? Does anyone have experience with a sale that depended on having OpenChain compliance? Or a well-defined Open Source program?

 

 

 

'The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com'


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Prasad Iyer
 

Absolutely, I agree. Actually in some Orgs. that have a large Product foot-prints across various business models (On-Prem, SaaS, Enterprise, Managed XaaS etc.), OpenChain is part of the Organization’s broader Third Party Assets Initiative that not just includes Third party OpenSource (OS) components but also TP commercial assets that need to be regulated and validated for Security and Compliance.  The actual Third Party Compliance processes are embedded within the Product’s Development life cycle in to what can be perceived as a fully integrated ‘Dev-Sec-Ops’ model that addresses these main goals (Not a complete list):

  • Early identification of Third Party Component during Product life cycle  (i.e. ‘Shift-left’ approach to TP Discovery)
  • Manage/limit Third Party Asset data proliferation to improve Product security (Limiting the attack surface)
  • Security reports – This can be used as a feedback source and help to derive quality exit criteria for Product ship
  • Product Vulnerability reports – There is a growing demand from customers for this and depending on the industry, this will be getting much more prevalent in the coming days
  • Third party license compliance – Apart from legal obligation, other aspects including Royalty calculation, contract terms & negotiations and TP external audits play a significant role in building Organization’s Trust and brand loyalty. There are some studies (such as https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042812045867) that gives an idea on how these factors play a role when it comes to Customer retention and subscription renewal that is crucial for any Organization that is either transforming or already switched fully to XaaS business model.  

 

Cheers,

signature_126515226

Prasad Iyer

Director, Engineering - Product Operations

 

Email : prasadiy@...

Phone: +1 (408) 315-5101

DNS

 

 

 

 

From: <main@...> on behalf of "Andrew Aitken via lists.openchainproject.org" <andrew.aitken=wipro.com@...>
Reply-To: "main@..." <main@...>
Date: Sunday, February 21, 2021 at 9:20 AM
To: "main@..." <main@...>
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

A couple of things to keep in mind, OpenChain is an element of a compliance program which is in turn an element of an open source governance program and the business justification for Openchain can be tied to the larger goals for compliance and governance which will vary by industry. If you embed lots of open source in products you sell, then you are very concerned about license compliance and IP leakage, if you’re in a highly regulated environment like financial services you’re more concerned about regulatory compliance, cybersecurity risks and operational overhead maintenance, what I refer to as open source component lifecycle management. When Openchain conformance is a part of those larger efforts it is much easier to justify.

 

 

Regards,

 

Andrew Aitken

Global Open Source Practice Leader

in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat

650-704-6321

1494361338303_PastedImage

 

 

 

 

Sensitivity: Internal & Restricted

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Trent Allgood via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2021 7:18 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
.
 

I agree with the previous statements as well. In addition, it might be hard to find current statements on Open Chain itself due to its relative infancy, especially as an ISO PAS, but Gartner has said a lot over the years about the business value of proper IT Asset Management (ITAM) & Software Asset Management (SAM) governance. ITAM includes SAM which itself includes Software License Management & Compliance which itself includes Open Source License Management & Compliance. One of the most common statistics used from Gartner (paraphrased) is: 'companies with mature Software Asset Management practices can recognize 30% cost savings the first year and 5% cost savings in each of the subsequent 5 years' (See G00214140 for the exact language). Gartner has also made several statements on the trend of IT Security concerns being the main driver for adopting proper SAM governance programs. An organization can't manage and mitigate what it is not aware of (e.g. the Equifax breach; the congressional report directly blames the lack of knowledge of what Software was running in the environment). This is commonly referred to as 'shadow IT' and Gartner states that it expects a third of future cyber security breaches to be facilitated by unmanaged shadow IT ('Gartner Predictions for IT Infrastructure and Operations 2016'). So depending on if your organization's scope is more broad than Open Source License Compliance, you may find additional compelling reasons and statistics. Keep in mind, there is also a family of ISO Standards for IT Asset Management: ISO/IEC 19770-1:2017.

 

Kind regards,

 

Trent Allgood

ISO/IEC JTC1 SC7/WG21, Secretary

Anglepoint, Director, ITAM

 

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 9:44 PM Prasad Iyer via lists.openchainproject.org <prasadiy=cisco.com@...> wrote:

This is an interesting question and really valid points from Oliver. In any major organization like ours, it is common for the portfolio governance Team to get the relevant justifications on the business(financial) value before they make a call to invest on any major initiative/projects. When it comes to Compliance related initiatives, it is really difficult to quantify in actual dollars the business value-add.

 

Here are some thoughts that I would like to share  on this -- Apart from the legal obligation, Compliance can be considered more as an insurance policy for the larger organization that offers protection from any potential license violation related liabilities/law suits and leakage of IPs in the future. In addition to this, having a robust compliance process is fundamental to generating and maintaining the most accurate Bill Of Materials (BOMs) for a given Product that may improve corresponding organization’s Supply chain forecasting accuracy. A stable and well managed Compliance program helps major organizations to ensure not to miss or over pay on their royalty payment obligations which at times can lead to major financial losses or litigations. So just to summarize, one may not be able to tag a given dollar amount as the Business value-add for having a dynamic and effective compliance program  since it may not be realized accurately in a short term. However, Organization’s overall Productivity and improved forecasting accuracy are the most certain business values one may realize due to Compliance in addition to legal and liability protection that can’t be quantified and may vary from case to case as appropriate.

 

Cheers,

 

signature_126515226

Prasad Iyer

Director, Engineering - Product Operations

 

Email : prasadiy@...

Phone: +1 (408) 315-5101

DNS

 

 

 

 

From: <main@...> on behalf of Oliver Fendt <oliver.fendt@...>
Reply-To: "main@..." <main@...>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 8:52 AM
To: "main@..." <main@...>
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Hi Robert,

 

This is a kind of strange question – it sounds to me like – What is the business justification not to breaking the law?

Would this organization do business with organizations which do not care about law? Or put it the other way – Are they a serious business partner, with such kind of attitude?

But coming back to your question, I am not aware about studies in this regard, I think it is to early for existing studies, it is an ISO standard since 2 months now.

OpenChain conformance is not only about OSS compliance it is about license compliance in general.

So the business justification is less damages, settlements and lawsuits => cost reduction. The copyright act defines strong measures against entities, which are not in compliance with law at least in Germany ( https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_urhg.html#p0561 – this has to be taken seriously, think about the consequences in such a case

I am sure that we will see more and more companies requiring OpenChain conformance in their supplier conditions. Especially those companies, which integrate supplier goods in their own offerings will require OpenChain conformance. It might be that the public sector will also require it.

The business justification is that this organization will be able to do business with companies that will require OpenChain conformance.

 

Ciao

Oliver

 

 

 

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Robert via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Samstag, 20. Februar 2021 03:09
To: main@...
Subject: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Recently, I was asked whether I could supply a business justification for OpenChain certification. "Business justification," in this case, means will it have any effect on sales. Is there a dollar amount that can be attached to compliance? Have we lost or gained a sale by compliance/certification? Personally, I do not know. Has there been a study that demonstrates tangible business value? Does anyone have experience with a sale that depended on having OpenChain compliance? Or a well-defined Open Source program?

 

 

 

'The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com'


Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value

Andrew Aitken
 

A couple of things to keep in mind, OpenChain is an element of a compliance program which is in turn an element of an open source governance program and the business justification for Openchain can be tied to the larger goals for compliance and governance which will vary by industry. If you embed lots of open source in products you sell, then you are very concerned about license compliance and IP leakage, if you’re in a highly regulated environment like financial services you’re more concerned about regulatory compliance, cybersecurity risks and operational overhead maintenance, what I refer to as open source component lifecycle management. When Openchain conformance is a part of those larger efforts it is much easier to justify.

 

 

Regards,

 

Andrew Aitken

Global Open Source Practice Leader

in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat

650-704-6321

1494361338303_PastedImage

 

 

 

 

Sensitivity: Internal & Restricted

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Trent Allgood via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2021 7:18 AM
To: main@...
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
.
 

I agree with the previous statements as well. In addition, it might be hard to find current statements on Open Chain itself due to its relative infancy, especially as an ISO PAS, but Gartner has said a lot over the years about the business value of proper IT Asset Management (ITAM) & Software Asset Management (SAM) governance. ITAM includes SAM which itself includes Software License Management & Compliance which itself includes Open Source License Management & Compliance. One of the most common statistics used from Gartner (paraphrased) is: 'companies with mature Software Asset Management practices can recognize 30% cost savings the first year and 5% cost savings in each of the subsequent 5 years' (See G00214140 for the exact language). Gartner has also made several statements on the trend of IT Security concerns being the main driver for adopting proper SAM governance programs. An organization can't manage and mitigate what it is not aware of (e.g. the Equifax breach; the congressional report directly blames the lack of knowledge of what Software was running in the environment). This is commonly referred to as 'shadow IT' and Gartner states that it expects a third of future cyber security breaches to be facilitated by unmanaged shadow IT ('Gartner Predictions for IT Infrastructure and Operations 2016'). So depending on if your organization's scope is more broad than Open Source License Compliance, you may find additional compelling reasons and statistics. Keep in mind, there is also a family of ISO Standards for IT Asset Management: ISO/IEC 19770-1:2017.

 

Kind regards,

 

Trent Allgood

ISO/IEC JTC1 SC7/WG21, Secretary

Anglepoint, Director, ITAM

 

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 9:44 PM Prasad Iyer via lists.openchainproject.org <prasadiy=cisco.com@...> wrote:

This is an interesting question and really valid points from Oliver. In any major organization like ours, it is common for the portfolio governance Team to get the relevant justifications on the business(financial) value before they make a call to invest on any major initiative/projects. When it comes to Compliance related initiatives, it is really difficult to quantify in actual dollars the business value-add.

 

Here are some thoughts that I would like to share  on this -- Apart from the legal obligation, Compliance can be considered more as an insurance policy for the larger organization that offers protection from any potential license violation related liabilities/law suits and leakage of IPs in the future. In addition to this, having a robust compliance process is fundamental to generating and maintaining the most accurate Bill Of Materials (BOMs) for a given Product that may improve corresponding organization’s Supply chain forecasting accuracy. A stable and well managed Compliance program helps major organizations to ensure not to miss or over pay on their royalty payment obligations which at times can lead to major financial losses or litigations. So just to summarize, one may not be able to tag a given dollar amount as the Business value-add for having a dynamic and effective compliance program  since it may not be realized accurately in a short term. However, Organization’s overall Productivity and improved forecasting accuracy are the most certain business values one may realize due to Compliance in addition to legal and liability protection that can’t be quantified and may vary from case to case as appropriate.

 

Cheers,

 

signature_126515226

Prasad Iyer

Director, Engineering - Product Operations

 

Email : prasadiy@...

Phone: +1 (408) 315-5101

DNS

 

 

 

 

From: <main@...> on behalf of Oliver Fendt <oliver.fendt@...>
Reply-To: "main@..." <main@...>
Date: Saturday, February 20, 2021 at 8:52 AM
To: "main@..." <main@...>
Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Hi Robert,

 

This is a kind of strange question – it sounds to me like – What is the business justification not to breaking the law?

Would this organization do business with organizations which do not care about law? Or put it the other way – Are they a serious business partner, with such kind of attitude?

But coming back to your question, I am not aware about studies in this regard, I think it is to early for existing studies, it is an ISO standard since 2 months now.

OpenChain conformance is not only about OSS compliance it is about license compliance in general.

So the business justification is less damages, settlements and lawsuits => cost reduction. The copyright act defines strong measures against entities, which are not in compliance with law at least in Germany ( https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_urhg.html#p0561 – this has to be taken seriously, think about the consequences in such a case

I am sure that we will see more and more companies requiring OpenChain conformance in their supplier conditions. Especially those companies, which integrate supplier goods in their own offerings will require OpenChain conformance. It might be that the public sector will also require it.

The business justification is that this organization will be able to do business with companies that will require OpenChain conformance.

 

Ciao

Oliver

 

 

 

From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Robert via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Samstag, 20. Februar 2021 03:09
To: main@...
Subject: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value

 

Recently, I was asked whether I could supply a business justification for OpenChain certification. "Business justification," in this case, means will it have any effect on sales. Is there a dollar amount that can be attached to compliance? Have we lost or gained a sale by compliance/certification? Personally, I do not know. Has there been a study that demonstrates tangible business value? Does anyone have experience with a sale that depended on having OpenChain compliance? Or a well-defined Open Source program?

 

 

 

'The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com'

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