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Re: Certification Services
Hello all, This is an interesting idea; however, creating different variations of certifications might dilute the credibility of an ISO/IEC 5230 certificate. Also, it would be my understanding that it is not in line with audit and ISO practices and might result in confusion. With ISO/IEC 5230, we have an official ISO framework which specifies the requirements of a quality open source license compliance program – for which a certification body should follow ISO certification requirements, the ISO/IEC 17021 for audit and certification of management systems. ISO 17021 - audit and certification of management systems- defines that such an audit is conducted in two stages; stage 1 being a review of documentation of the management system (I would call it “design effectiveness audit”) and stage 2 to evaluate the implementation, including the effectiveness of the management system (I would call it “operating effectiveness audit”). So within stage 2, an ISO 17021 conformant certification body needs to obtain sufficient evidence of the effectiveness of the management measures, which includes sample testing where applicable. This does not require the management system to be in operation for a long period of time, such as a year, but it must be in operation so that the effectiveness of the measures can be demonstrated through evidence or reperformance of measures. Certifications as such (unlike some other audit reports such as ISAE 3000 or ISAE 3402) are per se related to a point in time, so it does not give an indication of the past or a specific period of time; e.g. it does not say that the management system has been effective for the last 12 months etc., but it gives an indication of the date of certification and, if applicable, for the subsequent period through surveillance audits. According to ISO 17021, there can be no certification of only design effectiveness / stage 1 - operational effectiveness must also be assessed. I assume an accreditation of such a certification procedure by the state authorities (in Germany DAkkS) is not possible. To provide a certificate only on stage 1 would bring a lot of confusion to the market. There is still the self-certification around, customer specific audits, and audit reports e.g. as per ISAE 3000 can be performed. To support companies even further a “certification readiness audit” can be performed before certification. PwC issues ISO/IEC 5230 certificates only on the basis of ISO 17021 compliant audits, including e.g. IAF MD #1, #4, #5, ensuring that anyone holding a PwC certificate can rely on full compliance with ISO 5230 and surrounding ISO certification requirements. Kind regards, Marcel Marcel Scholze (DE) PwC | Director | Open Source Software Services & IT-Sourcing Phone: +49 69 95851746 | Mobile: +49 151 161 57 049 Email: marcel.scholze@... PricewaterhouseCoopers GmbH Wirtschaftsprüfungsgesellschaft Friedrich-Ebert-Anlage 35-37 | 60327 | Frankfurt a. M. | Germany Find out about Open Source Software Management: https://www.pwc.de/opensource Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates: WP StB Dr. Norbert Vogelpoth Geschäftsführer: WP StB Dr. Ulrich Störk, WP StB Dr. Peter Bartels, Dr. Joachim Englert, WP StB Petra Justenhoven, WP Clemens Koch, StB Marius Möller, WP StB Uwe Rittmann, StB RA Klaus Schmidt, StB CPA Mark Smith Sitz der Gesellschaft: Frankfurt am Main, Amtsgericht Frankfurt am Main HRB 107858 PricewaterhouseCoopers GmbH Wirtschaftsprüfungsgesellschaft ist Mitglied von PricewaterhouseCoopers International, einer Company limited by guarantee registriert in England und Wales Datenschutz: Hinweise zur Datenverarbeitung bei PricewaterhouseCoopers GmbH WPG finden Sie unter Datenschutzhinweise PricewaterhouseCoopers GmbH WPG On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 at 18:15, Andrew K <andrew.katz@...> wrote:
Diese Information ist ausschliesslich fuer den Adressaten bestimmt und kann vertrauliche oder gesetzlich geschuetzte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie nicht der bestimmungsgemaesse Adressat sind, unterrichten Sie bitte den Absender und vernichten Sie diese Mail. Anderen als dem bestimmungsgemaessen Adressaten ist es untersagt, diese E-Mail zu lesen, zu speichern, weiterzuleiten oder ihren Inhalt auf welche Weise auch immer zu verwenden. Wir verwenden aktuelle Virenschutzprogramme. Fuer Schaeden, die dem Empfaenger gleichwohl durch von uns zugesandte mit Viren befallene E-Mails entstehen, schliessen wir jede Haftung aus. * * * * * The information contained in this email is intended only for its addressee and may contain confidential and/or
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Certification Services
Andrew K
Hi All
There’s been quite a lot of traffic on the list about how audits and certification are going to work, and I’d like to open up how we are approaching this. It’s important that people understand what an OpenChain certification means, and how it can be arrived at. To that end, we’ve spent a lot of time working with an audit specialist with experience in a broad range of fields from process to financial services to quality assurance to come up with our own audit processes and procedures. We’ve come to the conclusion that we need at (at minimum) two levels of certification.
One reason for this is that an organisation may seek third party certification directly after implementing an OpenChain compliance program. There should be a place in the marketplace for such a certification, but, again, such a certification will not be as in-depth as a certification which has tested the operations of the practices and procedures. This second level of certification will necessarily mean that the program has been in operation for a period of time (a year, for example), so that its outputs can be tested against the expectations of the program. Naturally, to receive this certification, the organisation will have to have been operating for sufficient time for the data to be available, so this level of certification cannot be offered immediately after implementation of the program.
In brief, we make a distinction between “Program Certification” and “Systems Certification”.
Program Certification confirms that OpenChain policies, practices and procedures are in place which are compliant. This is similar to verifying that the answers to the self-certification questionnaire are independently verified, and, in addition, confirming that, if operated properly (including build systems etc.) those policies, practices and procedures are capable of producing the required outputs (so in this respect it goes somewhat further than verifying self-certification on its own).
Systems Certification requires Program Certification, but it also requires that the organisation has been operating an OpenChain program for a period of time sufficient for us to certify both that the organisation’s program meets Program Certification standards, and also that those policies, practices and procedures verifiably meet the outcomes required by the OpenChain Specification. The former is, in effect, a readiness and capability certification, and the latter is a more comprehensive certification to audit standards, so it will require sample-testing that compliance artifacts for components are correctly generated, that licence choices have been correctly assigned, that training records have been correctly met, and so on.
Establishing the criteria for Program Certification is fairly straightforward, as it is based very much on the structure and content of the self-certification questionnaire, together with some additional checks to confirm the plausibility of the processes to be employed to implement the program. Systems Certification is somewhat more complex, in that it requires that audit processes are established to check that the expected outputs are in line with the actual outputs. It is not appropriate to do a complete code analysis here, for example (in the same way that a financial auditor undertaking a business’s annual audit will not check to ensure that every expenses receipt submitted to an organisation has been correctly entered into its accounting system), but a structured set of control-based checks will be used to provide the relevant confidence level.
We are putting together an internal specification for how the Systems Certification would work, and we are basing it on existing certification standards (such as Management Systems Certification ISO/IEC 17021 1). Clearly, it is in the interest of OpenChain that the levels of certification to be adopted are agreed on by the OpenChain Project, and, ultimately, we would consider that the certification programs themselves (and their operators) are independently verified by organisations such as UKAS in the UK, and DAkkS in Germany.
We’re very happy to discuss this further.
All the best
Andrew
Andrew Katz Orcro Limited +44 1628 470003 +44 7970 835001
Jubilee House, 213 Oxford Street, London, W1D 2LF Thames House, Mere Park, Dedmere Road, Marlow, Bucks SL7 1PB (registered office) Orcro Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales under Number 11173406. VAT number: GB 289 7831 32. Orcro Limited is not regulated as a law firm and does not provide legal advice, but has a relationship with Moorcrofts LLP. We are happy to work with either Moorcrofts LLP or your own chosen legal advisers. Individuals’ qualifications are as set out in their bio page. Reference to an individual as a lawyer, solicitor or paralegal does not mean that they are acting in that capacity as an Orcro staff member.
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OpenChain Bi-Weekly Webinar - Mon, 2021-03-01
#cal-notice
main@lists.openchainproject.org Calendar <noreply@...>
OpenChain Bi-Weekly Webinar When: Where: Organizer: Description: Join Our Zoom Meeting
Password
One Tap Telephone (no screensharing)
Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/abeUqy3kYQ After dialing the local number enter 9990120120#
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Starting in five minutes: Webinar - OpenChain ISO 5230 in the supply chain so far
The OpenChain Bi-Weekly Webinar begins in five minutes. This time we will explore OpenChain ISO 5230 in the supply chain so far. An interactive session with plenty of room for questions.
Join freely: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9990120120?pwd=NzVCaFE2L1RRRFZaSkk0dm8xdlplUT09
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OpenChain Bi-Weekly Webinar - Mon, 2021-03-01 10:00pm-11:00pm, Please RSVP
#cal-reminder
main@lists.openchainproject.org Calendar <main@...>
Reminder: OpenChain Bi-Weekly Webinar When: Monday, 1 March 2021, 10:00pm to 11:00pm, (GMT-08:00) America/Los Angeles Where:https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9990120120?pwd=NzVCaFE2L1RRRFZaSkk0dm8xdlplUT09 An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP Organizer: Shane Coughlan scoughlan@... 00818040358083 Description: This is part of the bi-weekly OpenChain Webinar series. Every two weeks we have international speakers covering a wide range of topics related to practical open source compliance challenges, solutions and considerations. You can learn more about this series here: https://www.openchainproject.org/webinars-interviews Join Our Zoom Meeting
Password
One Tap Telephone (no screensharing)
Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/abeUqy3kYQ After dialing the local number enter 9990120120#
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OpenChain Mini-Summit, March 10th
Jennifer McGinnis <jmcginnis@...>
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
reza.alavi@wipro.com
Hi Jan,
I take your point of corporate change and thank you for highlighting change management as one of the critical issues. In my experience, I’ve seen many enterprises are struggling in their change management challenges while technology is continually changing. During the rise of regulation and linear software development, enterprises tend to demonstrate that they have fully auditable IT controls and regulate release into production systems. Therefore, they adopted a rigorous and sometimes entirely inflexible IT change management process approach. Some of the best practice frameworks, such as ITIL, are considered to create a responsible team (change advisory board) to assess requests for change against risk and their impacts and collision avoidance. The purpose of this is to balance the stability of enterprises and innovation. However, this traditional approach to change management created several challenges, such as increased overhead costs and, more importantly, the frustration for developments and operations teams. So, instead of change management being an enabler, it became a constraint.
The open source software compliance regime may not go smoothly to the RFC (request for change) process in many enterprises and creates a pain point for development, operation, security teams. Thus, open source compliance is seen as unmanageable and detriment to business.
I think it is time for some changes in the change management approach!
Warm regards, Reza
From: main@... <main@...>
On Behalf Of Jan Thielscher via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: 25 February 2021 16:07 To: main@... Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value
CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
Hello Aitken,
thank you for pointing this out. I can underline this experience as well. My suspicion is, that project ownership and traditional corporate structures are root causes of this.
We try to organize projects from the beginning as corporate change projects. This does not make it easier to sell, but it sets the right expectations at sponsor level. When starting a project initiated in corporate legal, you may succeed in IT / Dev but might fail in corporate purchase or later in HR, when it comes to adjusting developer contracts concerning contributions…
Thus I would suggest to frame it from the beginning as a corporate change.
Best regards Jan
Von: <main@...> im Auftrag von "Andrew Aitken via lists.openchainproject.org"
<andrew.aitken=wipro.com@...>
Shane, to your point, having been involved in building or advising on over 50+ governance programs, one area of weakness we consistently see is around supply chain management. Many organizations set up sophisticated processes, tooling and automation to manage code they build and deploy and only give a passing thought to code ingested or embedded and deployed in their products from 3rd parties.
Regards,
Andrew Aitken Global Open Source Practice Leader in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat 650-704-6321
CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
Thanks Mary. An important point.
Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward.
Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth.
The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation).
I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market.
We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value?
Regards
Shane
'The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com'
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OpenChain Global Work Team Meeting 2020-02-22
OpenChain Global Work Team Meeting 2020-02-22
https://www.openchainproject.org/featured/2021/02/25/openchain-global-work-team-meeting-2020-02-22 We are doing a lot of editing. Here is what we are working on: • We want to close the comments on this Word document to create our new free online training course on edX. We currently have a lot of suggestions around parts 1~4 and need suggestions around parts 5~8. Please review and add notes to help us make this happen for late March delivery! https://1drv.ms/w/s!AsXJVqby5kpnkRE0rsGzo5lduvaq?e=t0aEs5 • We want to improve our one-slide overview for the purpose of putting it into our supplier “Introduction to OpenChain” slide deck: https://1drv.ms/p/s!AsXJVqby5kpnkRmAupkc3JkJP7ni • We want to review the supplier “Introduction to OpenChain” slide deck to consider refinements to language to make it super clear and simple for organizations completely new to OpenChain: https://1drv.ms/p/s!AsXJVqby5kpnkRUxneDgBQMWIUmx • Finally, we want to update two specific areas of our general project overview slides. The first, slide 22, is about explaining the place of OpenChain in the eco-system. What is the best way to visualize this? The second is to review the project summary language on slide 26 to consider if it fits your mental model of how we should be summarized: https://1drv.ms/p/s!AsXJVqby5kpnkRbTu0pv0Jgb0aAQ If we get all this together we will have the perfect package to hand to suppliers and other interested parties to onboard them into our ecosystem.
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OpenChain Bi-Weekly Webinar - Mon, 2021-03-01 10:00pm-11:00pm, Please RSVP
#cal-reminder
main@lists.openchainproject.org Calendar <main@...>
Reminder: OpenChain Bi-Weekly Webinar When: Monday, 1 March 2021, 10:00pm to 11:00pm, (GMT-08:00) America/Los Angeles Where:https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9990120120?pwd=NzVCaFE2L1RRRFZaSkk0dm8xdlplUT09 An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP Organizer: Shane Coughlan scoughlan@... 00818040358083 Description: This is part of the bi-weekly OpenChain Webinar series. Every two weeks we have international speakers covering a wide range of topics related to practical open source compliance challenges, solutions and considerations. You can learn more about this series here: https://www.openchainproject.org/webinars-interviews Join Our Zoom Meeting
Password
One Tap Telephone (no screensharing)
Find your local number: https://zoom.us/u/abeUqy3kYQ After dialing the local number enter 9990120120#
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
Jan Thielscher
Hello Aitken,
thank you for pointing this out. I can underline this experience as well. My suspicion is, that project ownership and traditional corporate structures are root causes of this.
We try to organize projects from the beginning as corporate change projects. This does not make it easier to sell, but it sets the right expectations at sponsor level. When starting a project initiated in corporate legal, you may succeed in IT / Dev but might fail in corporate purchase or later in HR, when it comes to adjusting developer contracts concerning contributions…
Thus I would suggest to frame it from the beginning as a corporate change.
Best regards Jan
Von: <main@...> im Auftrag von "Andrew Aitken via lists.openchainproject.org" <andrew.aitken=wipro.com@...>
Shane, to your point, having been involved in building or advising on over 50+ governance programs, one area of weakness we consistently see is around supply chain management. Many organizations set up sophisticated processes, tooling and automation to manage code they build and deploy and only give a passing thought to code ingested or embedded and deployed in their products from 3rd parties.
Regards,
Andrew Aitken Global Open Source Practice Leader in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat 650-704-6321
From: main@... <main@...>
On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 2:07 AM To: main@... Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value
CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
Thanks Mary. An important point.
Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward.
Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth.
The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation).
I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market.
We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value?
Regards
Shane
'The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments. WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. www.wipro.com'
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
Andrew Aitken
Shane, to your point, having been involved in building or advising on over 50+ governance programs, one area of weakness we consistently see is around supply chain management. Many organizations set up sophisticated processes, tooling and automation to manage code they build and deploy and only give a passing thought to code ingested or embedded and deployed in their products from 3rd parties.
Regards,
Andrew Aitken Global Open Source Practice Leader in/opensourcestrategy AndrewOSS_Strat 650-704-6321
From: main@... <main@...>
On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 2:07 AM To: main@... Subject: Re: [openchain] OpenChain Certification and Business Value
CAUTION:This email is received from an external domain. Open the hyperlink(s) & attachment(s) with caution.
Thanks Mary. An important point.
Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward.
Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth.
The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation).
I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market.
We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value?
Regards
Shane
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
Thanks Mary. An important point. Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward. Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth. The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation). I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market. We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value? Regards Shane
On Feb 23, 2021, at 1:42, Mattran, Mary <mary.mattran@...> wrote:
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
Thanks Mary. An important point. Many companies have existing and effective measures in place to address open source compliance. OpenChain does not invalidate or forcibly replace these measures, but it does provide a unified method for approaching the problem space moving forward. Because OpenChain is particularly useful in the context of supply chain management - both base compliance and in ensuring harmonized process approaches - it offers the potential offer greater effectiveness and efficiency than bespoke approaches. This is a key driver to our observed engagement and growth. The bias in expressing business values tends to be towards reduced resource cost (less time on bespoke approaches and governance) with increased speed (faster problem analysis and remediation). I do aim to have case studies unfolding over this year providing metrics, though in the specific content the % gained for ISO 5230 is still being unpacked due to the newness to market. We will have a mini-summit shortly. Perhaps we can take an hour for existing conformant companies to talk about their derived business value? Regards Shane
On Feb 23, 2021, at 1:42, Mattran, Mary <mary.mattran@...> wrote:
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Re: The business of OpenChain certifications
Asai, Yoshinaho
Hi all,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I'm sorry for being late to join this topics. I'm Asai from TUEV SUED Japan in charge of Functional Safety and OSS certificate. Because we are just started the job transfer process from former colleagues. It may takes a couple of months to announce that we are ready now again. From year of 2021 on we(TUEV SUED Japan, FS Team) will be responsible for the certificate acc. to ISO 5230 globally. We have more than 20 years experiences for Functional Safety Business in any category. So that we can adapt ISO 5203 without any difficulties because of our experience. Functional Safety Business includes lots of assessment Like software development(V-V model so on), System management audit and analysis of software development process. Once we are ready of course we will announce again officially. And also we are interesting to start working with clients who are interesting to have the 3rd party certificate in advance to other company. We can work together under reasonable conditions in that case. As I said we already issued more than 500 certificates as professional way acc. to ISO policy as notified body and certification body. (We are accredited by Governmental organization(EU/Germany, Dakks/ZLS).) We are confident to sale our mark as professional level in the global market for sure. The only thing I want to know is how much company are willing to have it. For us ISO 26262 certificate business were somehow no good results in automotive market. If OC certificate are well required in the market, of course we will do our best to show the certificate holder/comply with ISO 5230 as professional level in a single level judgement as certification body. Best regards, 淺井 由尚 (Yoshinaho Asai) Functional Safety Team, TUEV SUED Japan
-----Original Message-----
From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 5:06 PM To: main@... Subject: Re: [openchain] The business of OpenChain certifications "Attention! External Mail. Be careful with Links/Attachments!" Hi Dirk Self-certification is not an interim step. It is and always will be at the core of the project. In over five years in market it has proven to be an effective and efficient method of promoting better compliance. We have yet to have a reported case of misrepresentation in this space. Naturally, if such a case occurred in the future, we would address. We have several measures to do so, including but not limited to our trademarks. Regarding TUV SÜD specifically, the certification business has moved to Japan. Asai San in that office is in charge, and I am happy to make an introduction as useful. The Japan and Korea offices are currently talking with clients. More broadly, as Marcel pointed out, there are reputable certifiers and auditors in play. We expect to build and announce further relationships in this space throughout 2021. The key measure for effective engagement beyond their individual reputation is their participation in the OpenChain Partner Program. This ensures their application has been vetted by our governing board. Even more broadly, with ISO 5230 gaining traction in procurement, we expect to see an uptick in both independent assessment (similar to ISO 26262, and already provided by law firms and services providers in our eco-system), alongside full third party certification by organizations like PwC and TUV SÜD. Regards Shane On Feb 21, 2021, at 19:51, Dirk Riehle <dirk@...> wrote:
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Re: OpenChain Online Training Course - We are getting close
Balakrishna Mukundaraj
Hello Team,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
We now have all the 8 OSS basics and compliance related topics from OpenChain reference curriculum. Also, we have only copy pasted the slides content on to word document directly without any modifications. But some of the slides (Not all) have some good elaborate explanations in the slide notes sections, which are yet to be incorporated on into the document. Please do check and let us know or make changes on your own (with track changes), where we can add or replace the slide content with their explanations from slide notes. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards Mukundaraj Balakrishna Information co-ordination (RBEI/ECA5) Robert Bosch GmbH | Postfach 10 60 50 | 70049 Stuttgart | GERMANY | www.bosch.com Tel. +91 80 6657-5938 | Mobile +91-96207-91838 | Fax +91 80 6617-0711 | Balakrishna.Mukundraj@... Registered Office: Stuttgart, Registration Court: Amtsgericht Stuttgart, HRB 14000; Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Franz Fehrenbach; Managing Directors: Dr. Volkmar Denner, Prof. Dr. Stefan Asenkerschbaumer, Filiz Albrecht, Dr. Michael Bolle, Dr. Christian Fischer, Dr. Stefan Hartung, Dr. Markus Heyn, Harald Kröger, Rolf Najork, Uwe Raschke
-----Original Message-----
From: main@... <main@...> On Behalf Of Shane Coughlan via lists.openchainproject.org Sent: Monday, February 22, 2021 6:52 PM To: OpenChain Education <education@...>; OpenChain Main <main@...> Subject: [openchain] OpenChain Online Training Course - We are getting close Hey everyone! We have some great comments and suggestions for the first half of our course. Can you take a moment to run your eyes over what we have? The next step will be resolving comments and handing over to LF Training. https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/ap/w-59584e83/?url=https%3A%2F%2F1drv.ms%2Fw%2Fs!AsXJVqby5kpnkRE0rsGzo5lduvaq%3Fe%3DAYuskf&data=04%7C01%7Cbalakrishna.mukundraj%40in.bosch.com%7Ce8a3cdec52a74aa7b8a908d8d734e485%7C0ae51e1907c84e4bbb6d648ee58410f4%7C0%7C0%7C637495969456901189%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=0evQq6%2Blj9Yo4knTbi8JvOlOaQO5laZ807ZxCzeOz0Q%3D&reserved=0 NOTE ON EDITING THIS DOCUMENT This document is collecting the text from the OpenChain Curriculum Slides (it has chapters 1~4 already) and we are adding comments and ideas to refine the text. When we are happy with this material, we will hand it to LF Training, and they will produce a free edX course for us. Balakrishna is currently working adding chapters 5~8 for our review. Meanwhile, please look at the existing text and comments, and see if you can lend a hand!
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
Jan Thielscher
Hi Robert,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I followed the conversation and can confirm that the question of certification in the sense of „certify that I am compliant“ vs. „I verified that we do the right things to comply“ is a hard one. Most likely the existence of the standard will justify
the certification over time. Why do I believe this?
Given you are about to make a multi-million, several years supplier deal within the automative industry but the requirement is to be ISO 5230 compliant. If your org isn’t ready at the time of tender, probably you will not make it to the bid.
What’s the opportunity costs for that? Well, probably the discounted ebit of the project? enough for a certification?
I do not know what the ticket sizes for your company are, but I would suggest to think in that direction to make a first step. There is one thing for sure: The demand for this sort of certification will grow because it exists. It will bring the
buyer in a better position than if he does not request it while in the same time the costs are on the sellers side. Thus a buyer not requesting it, does a bad job.
Back to your question: Depending on your ticket size the answer might be a multi step approach. As Mary said: a single use case / request will most likely not make a business
case. But preparing the organisation based on what you already have will reduce the efforts and time required to achieve the cert, whenever required. So even smaller tickets allow a justification. The path to describe it will be specific to your company.
Following the above logic the decision will anyhow evolve from a „whether“ to a „when" …
Mit freundlichem Gruß / kind regards
Jan Thielscher T: +49 69 153 22 77 55 F: +49 69 153 22 77 51 EACG GmbH Enterprise Architecture Consulting Group Taunus Tor 1 (TaunusTurm), 60310 Frankfurt am Main Handelsregister Frankfurt am Main HRB 84852 Geschäftsführer: Jan Thielscher, Dr.-Ing. Stefan Pokorny MASTERING DIGITAL TRANSFORMATION - GET THE eBOOK: https://www.eacg.de/ebook
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
Thank you to Shane and everyone who took the time to respond to my question. I would like to clear one thing up. When I asked to justify compliance with the ISO standard from a business perspective, I did not mean to imply that my organization does not comply with open source licensing issues or that we do not have an internal program for making sure we are in compliance. We certainly do. Also, I believe everyone on this mailing list is, in some way, involved in Open Source compliance so I think we are mostly on the same page as to the need for compliance from a legal and ethical perspective. From a business perspective, however, if I want to show data (and some data has been quoted in the replies to my original question -- thanks). Showing data in any compliance related effort is challenging. Furthermore, the amount of effort it takes to produce the data may exceed the amount of effort to simply implement ISO compliance. I smell a research paper.
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
To me, this is a strange answer. My company is not OC compliant, but we certainly have been taking compliance seriously and have much in place to support that commitment in the form of compliance reviews. So, we don't break the law. OC Compliance is not a law. It is a standard for having a robust compliance program. If you already have ways of ensuring you are not violating licenses/law, the question is "what value does it have for me to go the extra mile to become OC compliant?" An important question for companies to answer.
My company supplies automotive subsystems to auto manufacturers. The auto manufacturers are starting to ask about our plans to be OC compliant. It is a business-to-business question, and easier for us to answer. If I am a customer looking for COTS, I am likely not going to ask if the SW is OC Compliant, so it may have no business value to that vendor to take the extra steps to OC compliance.
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Re: OpenChain Certification and Business Value
Nicole Pappler
Hey hey! I've been following this discussion now for a while and I'd like to add my 50 cents to it. As I understood it is currently hard for some to get a grip on the business value of an OpenChain certification, or even the value of an OpenChain compliant program? I think Oliver's initial question states it quite cleary: "What
is the business justification not to breaking the law?" I'd
like to add, what is the business value to be sure that you don't
violate legal rules by accident? If you violate the license
obligations of the components you use in your product, regardless
if you did it on purpose or because of your ingorance of the
obligations, you simply have no legal right to sell your product
anymore - as you never had the right to do so anyway. This means
all your invest to develop your product, all production costs you
had for manufacturing, shipping etc - you could have burnt that
money, you are definitly not getting any revenue out of your
product anymore. You might even have cost for the legal procedings
and charges, compensation payments to the rights holders, maybe
even costs for the disposal of your now useless product. Maybe
even damage compensation for your customers, as they also cannot
use your product anymore in their products. As Oliver already
stated that the value for sure is "less damages, settlements
and lawsuits => cost reduction.". And thinking of the OpenChain compliant program as a risk
management measure clearly shows that this risk must be managed in
your complete supply chain. And will lead to the question how to
prove to your business partners that you are compliant - and
likewise how to ask for compliance evidence. So there you have the
value of certifications - it is a standardized evidence that you
are compliant. So there is a clear value in certifications. Which of the three
certification models offered by OpenChain is the most valueable
for your business case is up to you. Usually that is a matter of
trust - if you know your partners quite well you will be ok with
self certification. It becomes more complicated if you want to
demonstrate your compliance to a bigger audience, be it in
concrete sales discussions or to position your product or services
on the market. As already stated by Dirk, this could help a
positioning as a premium provider on the market. And there might
come the day, that compliance to OpenChain will be a fixed staple
in every RFQ, like A-SPICE is now in certain markets. Anyway: @Dirk Riehle: regading "The missing part seem
to be the certification agencies (and their assessors). The
people who drove forward the TUEV certification mark have left;
not sure much is going on there. Any other agencies?" - Yes,
we have left, but we have now established a cooperation with our
ex-colleagues at TÜV SÜD to support them to continue with the
OpenChain 3rd party certification - so if anybody is interessted
in getting a TÜV mark on their compliance activities, please feel
free to contact me, I'm still the main driver of their 3rd party
certification. And regarding your question of an ISO standard how
to set up certification agencies - it's the ISO/IEC 17065:2012.
That's the one you can go for e.g. by asking the Dakks for
accreditation. Additionally to this accreditation the value of the
certificate you issue as a certification body will still only be
as valuable as the level of trust the market has in your
certification brand. The question that's coming into my mind now is: How can we
establish trust in the assessment and certication programs? How
can we ensure the quality of Independent Compliance Assessment and
OpenChain 3rd party certifications? The certification based on the
standard can be done by everybody, but does anybody see a value in
having something like an "OpenChain project accredited Assessment
Partner"? Or a training and personal certification program for
OpenChain assessors, similar to what's there for A-SPICE? Maybe it's worth to discuss this all in one of our regular calls? BR, Nicole Am 22.02.21 um 09:38 schrieb Shane
Coughlan:
All, fantastic discussion thus far. I am jumping in at Trent’s email because it touches on a strategic development and - indeed - target for the project.
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OpenChain Global Work Teams - Fourth Monday Call - Mon, 2021-02-22 7:00am-8:00am, Please RSVP
#cal-reminder
main@lists.openchainproject.org Calendar <main@...>
Reminder: OpenChain Global Work Teams - Fourth Monday Call When: Monday, 22 February 2021, 7:00am to 8:00am, (GMT-08:00) America/Los Angeles Where:Zoom - https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9990120120?pwd=NzVCaFE2L1RRRFZaSkk0dm8xdlplUT09 An RSVP is requested. Click here to RSVP Organizer: Shane Coughlan scoughlan@... Description: Join Zoom Meeting ( https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9990120120?pwd=NzVCaFE2L1RRRFZaSkk0dm8xdlplUT09 ) Meeting ID: 999 012 0120 Password: 123456
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